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David 
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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Apparently Israel’s government are considering an escalated response to Iran’s strikes. If so, apart from being corrupt and murderous, they’re also total $£$%^%%$ morons.
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Culprit 
Joined: 06 Feb 2003
Location: Port Melbourne
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| Tit for Tat strikes is how it all starts. Now Israel can drag the USA in. |
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swoop42 
Whatcha gonna do when he comes for you?
Joined: 02 Aug 2008
Location: The 18
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Let's be honest.
The "attack" by Iran was largely symbolic, Israel and it's allies knew full well it was coming, prepared for it as best they could be and Iran was even polite enough to say we're done now.
As far as these things go it was pretty lame by Iran.
In reality Israel bombed an Iranian consulate in Syria so what did they expect?
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David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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One possibility is that they actually desperately want to goad Iran into open conflict in the hope that it'll drag the US in and settle things once and for all. That's the conclusion that this article reaches:
https://theintercept.com/2024/04/14/israel-iran-drag-us-war-netanyahu-biden/
Personally, I very much hope it's not the case, because if so then this volley may only be the beginning of something much worse.
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Magpietothemax 
magpietothemax
Joined: 28 Apr 2013
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| swoop42 wrote: | Let's be honest.
The "attack" by Iran was largely symbolic, Israel and it's allies knew full well it was coming, prepared for it as best they could be and Iran was even polite enough to say we're done now.
As far as these things go it was pretty lame by Iran.
In reality Israel bombed an Iranian consulate in Syria so what did they expect? |
Precisely. Iran telegraphed the attack well in advance, to give Israel time to prepare, and then as you said, comfortingly made clear that it was now over. For domestic purposes, the Iranian regime had to be seen to make a response to the act of war that Israel carried out in bombing the Iranian embassy in Damascus.
Israel and the US are well aware that Iran would have to respond. Indeedn they expected just such a response. Right now, they are no doubt holding secret discussions, debating whether or not the time is right to mount a full scale attack on Iran, or rather manufacture yet another provocation - more serious than the previous one - to goad the Iranian regime into another response which this time could be used as a casus belli.
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Magpietothemax
magpietothemax
Joined: 28 Apr 2013
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| David wrote: | One possibility is that they actually desperately want to goad Iran into open conflict in the hope that it'll drag the US in and settle things once and for all. That's the conclusion that this article reaches:
https://theintercept.com/2024/04/14/israel-iran-drag-us-war-netanyahu-biden/
Personally, I very much hope it's not the case, because if so then this volley may only be the beginning of something much worse. |
^Don't agree with the fundamental premise of the Intercept article, which is that Israel acted alone to drag the US in.
Israel, at all significant times, is acting with the full knowledge and consent, as well as the active collaboration, of the Biden administration.
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What'sinaname
Joined: 29 May 2010
Location: Living rent free
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| Magpietothemax wrote: | | swoop42 wrote: | Let's be honest.
The "attack" by Iran was largely symbolic, Israel and it's allies knew full well it was coming, prepared for it as best they could be and Iran was even polite enough to say we're done now.
As far as these things go it was pretty lame by Iran.
In reality Israel bombed an Iranian consulate in Syria so what did they expect? |
Precisely. Iran telegraphed the attack well in advance, to give Israel time to prepare, and then as you said, comfortingly made clear that it was now over. For domestic purposes, the Iranian regime had to be seen to make a response to the act of war that Israel carried out in bombing the Iranian embassy in Damascus.
Israel and the US are well aware that Iran would have to respond. Indeedn they expected just such a response. Right now, they are no doubt holding secret discussions, debating whether or not the time is right to mount a full scale attack on Iran, or rather manufacture yet another provocation - more serious than the previous one - to goad the Iranian regime into another response which this time could be used as a casus belli. |
Iran fired over 200 cruise missiles and drones. The only reason there wasn't mass fatalities was because of Israel's iron dome defence.
Stop pretending that Iran was shooting fireworks to Israel. Many hundreds / thousands would have been killed but for Israel's defence.
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Magpietothemax
magpietothemax
Joined: 28 Apr 2013
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| What'sinaname wrote: |
Stop pretending that Iran was shooting fireworks to Israel. Many hundreds / thousands would have been killed but for Israel's defence. |
The US and its NATO allies shot down many of the drones.
The Israel Dome Defence only exists because of US funding and transfers of technology.
One child was injured as a result of Iran's attacks, which were signalled in advance.
If the Palestinians had the Iron Dome courteousy of the US, and Israel gave truthful information 24 hours in advance of where it was going to strike, perhaps then there would be far fewer Palestinians massacred by Israel.
Your arguments are absurd.
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What'sinaname
Joined: 29 May 2010
Location: Living rent free
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My argument is that there were only 1 casualty because of Isrsael's top shelf defence, and not because of Iran niceties.
You then say that's absurd, while at the same time, saying that if Hamas had the same system, there would be fewer Hamas casualties.
Have a bex and lie down. You are so biased and have so much hatred of Israel that you don't even know what you're arguing about anymore.
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David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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Good article from Haaretz that makes a basic point: the warmongers in the Israeli and Iranian governments are the enemies of the people of both countries:
https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/haaretz-today/2024-04-16/ty-article/.highlight/israelis-and-iranians-seem-to-agree-on-one-thing-none-of-us-want-this-war/0000018e-e739-db5b-afbe-ffbb39f50000
| Quote: | Israelis and Iranians Seem to Agree on One Thing: None of Us Want This War
Linda Dayan
On Saturday night, Israelis received a particularly grim push notification from their news app of choice: Iran had launched hundreds of drones at Israel, its long-awaited response to Jerusalem's assassination of senior Revolutionary Guards figures in Damascus on April 1.
Like many others, I had a lot on my mind: Am I going to die? Will my home be destroyed? I don't have a shelter – will my slipshod saferoom be enough? Will my friends and family outside the city be safe? Do I have time to shower?
After the Israel Defense Forces spokesman confirmed that it would take several hours for the drones to reach Israel – giving me enough time to shower – I packed a small bag and headed for the Haaretz offices, which have an actual bomb shelter.
On my way there, I passed other young people in my neighborhood headed for friends and relatives, with a couple days' worth of clothes in their backpacks. All of them seemed similarly exhausted, both due to the late hour and because everything about this situation is, to put it simply, absurd.
After six months of fighting Hamas with seemingly no plan and no results – other than the mass destruction of Gaza – even the members of the far right I spoke to recently as they protested outside the home of the attorney general told me they wanted the war there to end.
On the northern border, some 80,000 people were evacuated from their homes due to incessant Hezbollah missiles. And now we're going to war with the Islamic republic while led by the same men who fumbled the largest massacre of Jews since the Holocaust?
"Absurd" was the same word used by Arash Azizi, the professor, writer and author of "What Iranians Want: Women, Life, Freedom," told me on the Haaretz podcast. From what he was hearing from those in Iran, when the news broke that they had fired a massive barrage at Israel, "there was a lot of fear and a lot of uncertainty and a lot of anger at a government that is now getting them potentially involved in a conflict that they really want very little to do with."
When we Israelis were making last-minute convenience store runs to stock up for disaster, so were Iranians, who were queuing for hours at gas stations. They are dealing with a renewed crackdown on women who refuse to abide by the theocratic leaders and are showing their hair in public. Those who have taken to the internet to voice their frustrations – or even concerns – about Iran's attack and its possible repercussions are being targeted by a new repression campaign, Azizi said.
He explained that while Iranians love their country and want to defend it, "by and large, Iranians don't support [the regime] for the basic reason that they see its foreign policy as having brought them nothing but misery, economic isolation and international isolation."
They want this conflict as much as we do: not even a little bit. Both of these countries have known war and loss, and do not want to experience any more of either. But unfortunately for us, Iran and Israel are led by people who are putting their greed, pride and hostility before their people – despite mass protest movements in both countries to put an end to it.
Before we Israelis go down the same path of misery, economic isolation and international isolation – we seem to be on a fast track to all three – we have to make it as clear as we can: None of us want this war. |
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All watched over by machines of loving grace |
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David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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| Magpietothemax wrote: | | David wrote: | One possibility is that they actually desperately want to goad Iran into open conflict in the hope that it'll drag the US in and settle things once and for all. That's the conclusion that this article reaches:
https://theintercept.com/2024/04/14/israel-iran-drag-us-war-netanyahu-biden/
Personally, I very much hope it's not the case, because if so then this volley may only be the beginning of something much worse. |
^Don't agree with the fundamental premise of the Intercept article, which is that Israel acted alone to drag the US in.
Israel, at all significant times, is acting with the full knowledge and consent, as well as the active collaboration, of the Biden administration. |
That may be your assumption based on certain political principles, but it doesn’t seem to match the reality of the current US/Israel relationship:
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/04/17/world/middleeast/iran-israel-attack.html
| Quote: | Israel was mere moments away from an airstrike on April 1 that killed several senior Iranian commanders at Iran’s embassy complex in Syria when it told the United States what was about to happen.
Israel’s closest ally had just been caught off guard.
Aides quickly alerted Jake Sullivan, President Biden’s national security adviser; Jon Finer, the deputy national security adviser; Brett McGurk, Mr. Biden’s Middle East coordinator; and others, who saw that the strike could have serious consequences, a U.S. official said. Publicly, U.S. officials voiced support for Israel, but privately, they expressed anger that it would take such aggressive action against Iran without consulting Washington.
The Israelis had badly miscalculated, thinking that Iran would not react strongly, according to multiple American officials who were involved in high-level discussions after the attack, a view shared by a senior Israeli official. On Saturday, Iran launched a retaliatory barrage of more than 300 drones and missiles at Israel, an unexpectedly large-scale response, if one that did minimal damage. |
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Magpietothemax
magpietothemax
Joined: 28 Apr 2013
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The main reason why Iran's attack left Israel almost totally unscathed was not the Iron Dome , but the fact that Iran gave advance warning. Turkish officials have confirmed that the Iranian government contacted them, and other US/NATO officials, about the impending attack 72 hours in advance. The US and NATO ships in the region therefore had time to prepare in advance, and played a crucial role in shooting down Iranian drones and missiles before they even got to Israeli airspace.
Finally of course, the Iron Dome system of Israel also had advance notice of the coming attack, and therefore operated at an artificially inflated level of accuracy. Hezbollah and Iran together could swamp the Iron Dome system with a massive barrage of missiles and drones, should that be their intention. It is clear that the retaliation made by Iran was deliberately designed to placate domestic anger, while attempting to avoid getting ensnared into a war with Israel
It is certain that Israel will retaliate in some way. Very likely, it will be an attack on Iran's nuclear facilities, which would be the start of an escalatory spiral. Israel understands that the US will back it politically and militarily no matter what, hence the danger of uncontrollable escalation.
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Free Julian Assange!!
Ice in the veins |
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David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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What'sinaname
Joined: 29 May 2010
Location: Living rent free
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^ strap yourselves in.
The upside, we might be the reigning premier for ever!
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