Israeli–Palestinian conflict

[slangman]

^

No it hasn't. Those Pro Palestine protestors chanting "from the river to the Sea" likely don't realise what they're chanting, but they're advocating to wipe out Israel.

Anti-semitism is back….but did it really ever go away??

Anti-semitism is definteky back - and yes, never disappeared- , but it is not where you and Slangman think it is.

Governments, Zionist organisatins are all promoting the sickening lie that the pro-Palestine protests are "anti-Semitic". This is a disgusting slander. The protests are not anti-Semitic, they are opposed to the genocidal and apartheid policies of the Israeli government. The European and Australian governments all agree with the annihilation of the Palestinian people, and are backing the line of the US government. Like thieves at a picnic, they are all hoping to profit from a new colonial domination of the middle east. The albanese government backs the genocide and ethnic cleansing in Gaza, refusing to call for a ceasefire, because it represents the interests of Australian capitalism, which stakes its future on its slavish alliance with Washington.

The Albanese government, the Macron government, the governments in Britain and in the US are all moving to try to ban these protests using the foul lie that they are anti-Semitic.

But the real anti-Semitism is to be found not among the masses of protestors, but in the ruling circles themselves.
The Canadian parliament stood to applaud a Ukrainian WW2 fascist who was a member of a Ukrainian SS division organised by the Nazis.
The US and NATO governments are training and arming neofascist and virulently anti-Semitic Neo Nazis in Ukraine as part of the war against Russia.
Finally, the claim that the Netahanyu is the representative of the Jewish people, made by all Western governments, the msm, and the members of Nethahanyu's governement itself, is a massive anti-Semitic lie. What better way to encourage anti-Semitism than to publicly claim that this fascistic govermnent of criminals currently carrying out genocide and discussing the use of nuclear weapons against the Palestinians, somehow represents the Jewish people?

Historically, anti-Semitism has abeen used by capitalist governments to divide the working class and to mobilise desperate, impoverished middle class layers against the working class. It still has the same function today. But it now has assumed an extra dimension: it is being used by NATO, US and Australian governments, as a pretext to attack basic democratic rights such as the right to protest.

Your obsession with working class vs ruling class is bordering on ridiculous and it is clouding your ability to be impartial and able to understand that not everything is about the classes.
You can dismiss capitalism all you like but just remember that socialism is the system that more people have fled in the last 100 years than any other.

Anti semitism is not about classes. It’s about the historical hatred of Jews.
Don’t make up bull$!@t!!!

[Magpietothemax]

Your obsession with working class vs ruling class is bordering on ridiculous and it is clouding your ability to be impartial and able to understand that not everything is about the classes.
You can dismiss capitalism all you like but just remember that socialism is the system that more people have fled in the last 100 years than any other.

Anti semitism is not about classes. It’s about the historical hatred of Jews.
Don’t make up bull$!@t!!!

Modern anti-Semitism, regardless of your opinion, is totally bound up with the growth of the working class throughout europe and the growth of socialist ideas in the labour movement - regardless of what your opinion is, I am afraid. The Tsarist regime in Russia responded to the revolutionary socialist movement in the working class by inciting the most horrific pogroms against the Jewish population. Likewise, anti-Semitism was fomented by the ruling classes in France, Austria and then in Germany. The development of socialism within the working class was viewed by a mortal threat by the capitalist class, and it sought to mobilise the most ignorant and backward layers of the middle class against the Jewish population, and as a battering ram against the organisations of the working class. Hitler hated the Jews not due to some abstract innate hatred of Jews, but because they occupied such prominent positions within the leadership of the labour movement. And he hated the labour movement because it fought for genuine social equality for all, in opposition to his nightmarish vision of the superiority of the Aryan race and the German nation.
Regardless of what you think, every historical phenonomen has its basis in classes and their struggle.
If you view this as BS, so be it. You can also declare the law of gravity to be BS if you like. You have a right to your views, even if they are not based on reality.
Finally, there is every right to dismiss capitalism as a failed system. The governments which once ruled in Eastern Europe and the former Soviet Union were the antithesis of socialism. They were Stalinist dictatorships, which fraudulently claimed the name of socialism to justfiy themselves politically. Genuine socialism, as fought for by Trotsky and the Left Opposition in 1923, has not yet been established.

[stui magpie]

^

That is some revisionist bullsh1t right there.

[Kingsofclutch]

When resources are tight humans fight.

The dream of integrated economies so interdependent that global conflict would be too detrimental to said economies is officially dead. It's a beautiful theory but in practice there will always be losers in any system and eventually they'll go to war.

All the major players have moved to war economies at the expense of social expenditure now, a 100 years ago we had a global pandemic followed by a war in Europe that expanded into a global conflict, interesting times ahead.

[Magpietothemax]

^

That is some revisionist bullsh1t right there.

You are entitled to your opinion as always.
And as usual, my question to you is: explain why you think it is BS, and what exactly in what I wrote above is untrue.
Not expecting a response, as usual.

As a postscript, it is wise not to use the word "revisionist" unless you actually know what it means.

[Magpietothemax]

When resources are tight humans fight.

The dream of integrated economies so interdependent that global conflict would be too detrimental to said economies is officially dead. It's a beautiful theory but in practice there will always be losers in any system and eventually they'll go to war.

All the major players have moved to war economies at the expense of social expenditure now, a 100 years ago we had a global pandemic followed by a war in Europe that expanded into a global conflict, interesting times ahead.

The "dream of integrated economies" is not a dream - it already exists. The entire global economy has been integrated and is globally interdependent on a colossal scale due to computerisation and information technology. The fundamental issue though is that despite being globally integrated, the world economy is split asunder by rival nation states, and this elementary contradiction betwen global economy and the nation state system is driving to world war, as you correctly note in your second paragraph.

[stui magpie]

^

That is some revisionist bullsh1t right there.

You are entitled to your opinion as always.
And as usual, my question to you is: explain why you think it is BS, and what exactly in what I wrote above is untrue.
Not expecting a response, as usual.

As a postscript, it is wise not to use the word "revisionist" unless you actually know what it means.

Trying to rewrite history to claim that antisemitism is somehow related to the Jewish support for the Labour movement is palpably ridiculous. It existed centuries, millenia even, before there was a Labour movement. It's another example of you trying to twist things to support your world view.

Some history lessons

https://theconversation.com/antisemitis ... oday-87878

https://www.britannica.com/topic/anti-Semitism

[David]

[stui magpie]

^

There needs to be a 2 state solution otherwise there will be no Israel.

I see people ranting at Israel being an Apartheid state. Of course it is, that was the design from the start.

If you're going to have a state purpose built for Jewish people you can't have a full democracy where the non-Jewish get a vote.

For mine, a 2 state solution would mean a complete re-drawing of borders, having Gaza in the corner and the West Bank landlocked doesn't work. Divide the whole territories longitudinaly through Jerusalem, one Israelis state, one Palestinian state, each having territory from the river to the sea.

[lazzadesilva]

^

There needs to be a 2 state solution otherwise there will be no Israel.

I see people ranting at Israel being an Apartheid state. Of course it is, that was the design from the start.

If you're going to have a state purpose built for Jewish people you can't have a full democracy where the non-Jewish get a vote.

You are absolutely right and your comments make sense. However please correct me if I’m wrong but isn’t this supposedly part of God’s plan written in the bible that is meant to happen? How can we stop it from happening?

[stui magpie]

Lazza old mate, IF God exists and IF they had anything resembling a plan, it would be like that of a 6 year old kid who got an Ant Farm for Christmas.

A short period of focus, observing what is happening with interest, which quickly turns to disinterest and other shiny toys.

God didn't write the Bible, people did, people with agendas. If you believe any of it, people were built with free will, the ability to make their own decisions and mistakes, so anything is possible from the sublime to the abhorrent.

[Magpietothemax]

[Kingsofclutch]

The "dream of integrated economies" is not a dream - it already exists. The entire global economy has been integrated and is globally interdependent on a colossal scale due to computerisation and information technology. The fundamental issue though is that despite being globally integrated, the world economy is split asunder by rival nation states, and this elementary contradiction betwen global economy and the nation state system is driving to world war, as you correctly note in your second paragraph.

That was not the part of the dream I was referring to, specifically the economic version of MAD.

ps I don't think the nuclear version will hold in our lifetime either, strap yourself in, there could be some turbulence and associated incineration.

[Magpietothemax]

^I just re-read what you wrote before, and understand now where you are coming from. You are saying that MAD is officially dead, because in an interdependent world economy there will be losers and war is inevitable.
Well i think of all the comments I have read here, yours is actually the most prescient.
I agree totally: MAD is completely dead, and all the NATO/US economies are indeed being converted by their governments into war economies. And that applies also to the Australian economy: the Albanese government is moving rapidly to converting Australia into a US military base and also a quarry of critical minerals essential for modern weapon production in preparation for war against China.
https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2023/1 ... x-n10.html
However, war is not inevitable. There remains one social force in society that is capable of preventing it. And that is the international working class.

[stui magpie]

@Magpietothemax sorry but that is unmitigated spin and rubbish.

The treaty of Versailles absolutely sodomised Germany. Post WWI when inflation was rampant and people were struggling, Antisemtism was taking place well before Hitler got any traction due to pure resentment.

The uneducated working classes had nothing to offer but their Labour and they saw (or were fed propaganda) that the Jews were living large as the arch capitalists. While the grunts worked in factories, Jews (some, not all clearly) made their money do the work, buying factories, lending money. The fire was already burning, Hitler threw petrol on it to serve his own ends.

No one has ever persecuted the Jews for being the workers advocate. Trying to make that argument is revisionist bullshit and maybe you should learn what that word means as it has more meanings than just associations with Marxism.